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What kind of backup do you think is more safe?

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#1 Wolly Xu

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 10:49 AM

Hi, all

 

Like the title said, what kind of backup do you think is more safe? Where do you backup your photos and other files? Why?

 

1. Public Cloud, like OneDrive, Dropbox.

2. Private storage, your HDD, NAS

 

Please reply. :smile:


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#2 fba

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 08:29 PM

Public clouds have a lot of issues with being hacked along with (in the US at least) a lot of open questions about who owns your data when it is stored there.   Because of this, I am SUPER careful about what I do with public cloud accounts.   In general, I will store things like pictures there only if they are heavily encrypted so that it isn't easy for someone to snoop on.   I realize that some people will say that nobody wants to see my vacation pictures or other stuff like that.  But, those people often don't consider what information is given away in a simple picture.  (Not to mention the information given away in the headers written by most cameras and phones!)

 

So, I keep personal pictures and videos stored on a local system with redundant drives.   I do have a few other plans (and projects) to store some of them in other places using encryption and other tricks to make it really hard to get at the data.  But, I have not had time to sit down and write the code to make that happen.

 

But, in general, I don't trust anything that is "in the cloud".   Too many high profile cases of stuff being hacked.   (Granted, if someone managed to find naked pictures of me, the hacking just might stop..  :laugh:   But, I'd rather not find out!)


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#3 GregiBoy

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 08:38 PM

Yeah, I don't use the cloud crap for mostly all the same reasons and another is that at Internet speeds, it takes ages to get 12Tb of data up there.

 

Mirrored drives and also periodic backup to external drives for off-site storage is my method of choice,

 

I've been caught too many times! :sad:



#4 SeeMoreDigital

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 10:30 PM

Indeed... I store my data across a number of 'off-line' data storage devices. Only data shared on forums is saved to 'the cloud'...

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#5 tienlequoc

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Posted 27 January 2015 - 02:12 PM

Mee too. Like offline data.



#6 Joe

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 02:22 AM

I am an offline guy myself, but that is probably just because I am super crazy and paranoid....



#7 GregiBoy

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 04:48 AM

Like the rest of us old buggers!!! :tz:


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#8 Wolly Xu

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 06:02 AM

But public cloud is easy to use for mobile device, especially the camera backup, you just need to register an account, do some simple settings, then it will begin to upload your files automatically. You can delete some photos for more storage anytime without worry about which photo can be deleted and which must be kept, because all of them have already been uploaded to the cloud. And you can easily access your cloud storage to download the files to your phone or share them on your facebook or twitter.

 

If you have a 24x7 running HTPC or NAS, you can also install a PC/NAS client (some cloud services have the NAS client) for syncing the files from the cloud to your local storage automatically.



#9 GregiBoy

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 06:19 AM

Wolly.

 

You are wasting your time trying to convince us old farts.

 

:tootha:



#10 Joe

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Posted 28 January 2015 - 07:16 AM

Exactly, you old guys don't trust it! I also assume you keep your money in gold bullion buried in your backyard, GregiBoy? :laugh: :tootha:

But, as they say, it is quite popular with the kids these days.

Beyond that though, cloud services are becoming increasing popular amoungst younger generations as they wish to store the myriad of photos they take during the day, or week or whatever.

My wife and all of her friends use cloud storage because those girls take pictures like there going to stop making cameras tomorrow! And neither her nor I have the space to safely and efficiently store them; so in the case of photos in particular I have to say I have fallen into the cult of the cloud.

I even back of many of my photos (albeit with all exif data removed and my very own special watermark only I can remove) as when I was younger my family experienced a natural disaster that robbed of us literally every photo we had...

So to avoid the pain of having priceless memories stolen from me in the future, I shoot a lot of my photos to the cloud.

#11 Chetwood

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 06:08 AM

I don't trust any cloud provider and given the abysmal upload speed and huges fees you have to pay for mobile plans, I don't see it as a great solution to upload ever growing photos.



#12 Wolly Xu

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Posted 29 January 2015 - 06:59 AM

I don't trust any cloud provider and given the abysmal upload speed and huges fees you have to pay for mobile plans, I don't see it as a great solution to upload ever growing photos.

What if this Cloud is located in your home and all your photos will be directly transfered back to your home wherever you are? :sk:



#13 fba

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:08 PM

Okay, so I started to write a big rant about the world we live in, and how governments suck and the NSA should be shut down.   But, I think it is beside the point.   All of the other "old farts" on here would probably agree with me, and probably agree that their own countries versions of the NSA should be shut down too..   So, instead let me address the question that Wolly is bringing up..

 

Unfortunately, it is true that younger people love the convenience of the cloud.  (Mostly because they don't understand what is really happening with their data..  And, once they do figure it out, it is usually too late.)

 

I have actually had an idea in the back of my mind for some time about building a "cloud" for the home, along with a TON of services that would sit around it, be secure, redundant, live in your own home, and be reasonably fast.   So, I have thought through a lot of the issues related to how you would make such a system work, and the issues you would have convincing people that their data was safe.   I've considered building it and either open sourcing it, or going commercial with it.   The end goal being to educate the world on what can be done with the data they currently allow "the cloud" to have.   (Since naked pictures of famous people being stolen off their own phones and "the cloud" hasn't seemed to convince people that storing sensitive data unencrypted on an always connected device is a bad idea. ;)

 

Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with how Internet connections work outside the US, so my assumptions are based on how things generally work on Internet connections in the US.   Those assumptions are :

 

1. Connections to the home are generally limited.   Even if your ISP says it is not.  (I'm lucky enough to have a business connection to my home, so my connection either isn't limited, or the limit is REALLY high.  I've pulled terabytes of data across the connection in a few weeks before.)   For most connections in the US, the limit is somewhere around 250 gigs.   For a house that uses Netflix, and has people home all day, that is a pretty low limit.   So, a well designed solution should use the best possible forms of data compression available, and should always be upgrading to anything that can give even a slightly better compression ratio, because every bit counts.

 

2. Connections to the home (and even to a lot of businesses) are behind NAT devices.   While they were not originally designed to be a form of firewall, they effectively are to some extent.   Basically, establishing a socket connection from "the outside world" back in to a home network isn't super easy.   You can use something like UPnP to poke holes in many routers, but there are well documented security issues with doing that.  (And a good solution can't create security holes!)   The best way to talk from "the world" back to a device behind NAT is to play some tricks using a server that is out on the Internet to connect the two devices.   However, this opens up the questions about what other abilities that server has.   So, an "ideal" solution would have that server component be open source, and something that anyone could run on their own hosting provider, so they can feel a little better about what that can do.  (Being open source also allows security minded people to audit the code and make sure it is safe.)

 

3. How do you convince someone like me that my data is safe as it transits the Internet?   With the NSA revelations, a lot of providers have started to "encrypt end to end", but the encryption keys are still all held by the provider, meaning that a government agency could easily force a company to hand over the keys, and make all of your data available.   At the same time, if I am running the cloud "in my home", I am going to want to know that there is high grade encryption being used on the connection that sends data back and forth.   I want to know what that encryption is (in great detail), and I want to be completely in control of the encryption keys.   Ideally, the encryption used should be something that governments generally don't like (because it is hard to break), and the encryption that is used should be modular so that if I didn't like what was being used I could hack up a new encryption method and plug it in.

 

4. In addition to #3, some thought should be given to how data makes its way back to my home.    I have several ideas on how you would do something like this.  But, the easiest way would be to have hooks in place to use something like TOR.   That way, even if the encryption is use can be broken, a significant amount of effort would be needed to track down all of the pieces of the data in order to actually see what it is.   Even better, the data shouldn't be streamed out in a linear fashion.   You could do some interesting "tricks" with PRNGs and shared secrets ("shared" between your home device and your phone or computer) that would allow you to send data blocks in a pseudo random layout that would make it harder to piece the files back together.   If you look at how EAP-AKA works with 3G SIM cards you could get a feel for what I am thinking of.   (Basically, a shared key along with a monotonicly incrementing value that can be used to generate the same value on both ends of a connection without communicating any data between the nodes.   It would need to be hacked up to work with data transfer, but the basic idea would be a decent foundation for building something like this.)    You would also need to put some effort in to making sure that really small files didn't get sent our as a single packet.   So, you would probably end up building the transfer protocol on top of UDP, which presents its own problems for reliable transmission of data.

 

5. Storing the data safely and reliably is always "interesting".   I suspect most of us have had some kind of run-in with failing hard drives (or flash drives, or other types of storage), so you need to provide ways to deal with that.   You also need to take in to consideration how to deal with "bit rot".   I would imagine most of the data that would get transmitted back to a "home cloud" would be the kind of stuff that people would want to hang on to for long periods of time.  So, you would want to make sure that the data on the disc was picked up and rewritten every now and then.   You would probably also want to keep hashes of the files so that you can determine if any bit rot is setting in.   Ideally, those hashes would also be useful for recovering any smaller bit errors that might happen.   This is a case where a good quality RAID system is worth its weight in gold.   RAID 5 essentially allows you to lose 1 discs worth of data and still be able to recover data.   If multiple drives is out of the question, you could still use the XOR system used in RAID 5 in a single disk as a way to recover from bit rot at the cost of losing 1/3rd of the capacity of the disk.   To do it, you would either need a special file system, or an existing file system that was laid out in a proprietary way that, if mounted by another system would probably look like random junk.   However, laying out the filesystem well could allow tools to easily recover data from the disk in the event that the hardware driving the disk failed.

 

 

There are significant derivations on these ideas that I have that I would build in to any "home cloud" system that I built.   But, I am keeping those ideas for myself.   I do eventually plan to implement my own home cloud solution, even if I never release it as a product.

 

But, if someone built a system like I have outlined above, (along with the necessary client apps for all of the different operating systems that might use it) then I would push everyone I know to use it as opposed to iCloud, Google Drive, etc.   I believe it would make it hard enough for a bad actor to read your data that they wouldn't bother unless you were being actively investigated for causing some kind of trouble.  ;)   (I believe that the bulk of the snooping going on right now is done just because it is so easy.    I also don't believe that anything I have outlined above is something that couldn't be defeated by an investigational organization that really wanted to find out what someone was doing.   It would just make it hard enough that they would only do it if they HAD to.)

 

 

 

All of that said, you could probably build something much more simple and get a fair number of people to use it.   There are already systems that exist that are installed on inexpensive SOHO routers.   However, I have no idea how they really work, and if I ever purchased such a device the first thing I would do is shut that functionality off.

 

(And yes, I know my tin-foil hat is on too tight.  :tootha:


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#14 GregiBoy

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 09:44 PM

And I do keep my gold bullion buried in the backyard too! 



#15 James190

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 02:07 PM

It's pretty much simple process! Jame







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